Prof Tina Beattie – “If she’s a Catholic, I’m a banana.”

POSTED BY BJC

“Completely off-topic, but some people might want to read this comment by Tina Beattie on the Tablet blog. It’s in response to Edmund Adamus’s summary of the findings of the recent questionnaire on marriage and family life. Sorry, but I don’t have time to write an article about it. If she’s a Catholic, I’m a banana.

Comment by: Tina Beattie Posted: 03/03/2014 16:13:24

Those of us who tried to answer the questionnaire honestly and in a way that might be helpful to the synod on the family are misrepresented by Edmund Adamus’s ‘reflection’.

Like most other Catholics I know, I respect the Church’s teaching on marriage and parenthood. I also know from experience that marriage and family life can induce agonies of guilt over our inevitable failures and shortcomings. However, I do not experience guilt over deciding in good conscience to use contraception to limit the number of children we had. I do not feel ashamed of my adult children for cohabiting with partners who have enriched our lives by their friendship. I do not feel compelled to pass negative judgement on the loving relationships of my gay friends. I am glad that some of my divorced Catholic friends have found joy in second marriages, and I want to share the sacraments with them. In other words, I’m like the vast majority of Catholics whose answers to the questionnaire have been made public.

I seek from the Church the formation I know I need most – formation that has to do with love and generosity of spirit, with faithfulness and integrity, with wisdom and discretion, with prayer and discernment. The list is long, but it does not include learning to regard contraception, premarital sex and homosexuality as intrinsically evil, nor does it include regarding divorced and remarried Catholics as people uniquely barred from the forgiveness offered by Christ in the sacraments.

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/blogs/1/298/lessons-in-obedience-for-survey-respondents

75 comments to Prof Tina Beattie – “If she’s a Catholic, I’m a banana.”

  • Thank you BJC – some interesting things to think about there.

  • katherine

    Usual boring twaddle from Ms Beattie – shes soooo predictable.

  • Bernadette

    Maybe she hopes for the ordination of women – then she can become the pope’s pope!

  • “I’m like the vast majority of Catholics whose answers to the questionnaire have been made public.”

    In other words like those with an axe to grind rather than those with a helpful contribution to make.

  • John M

    So she wants the Church to ditch marriage as a scared institution, it seems. Have sex with whoever you like, without regard to marriage, and scrap the Church’s teaching that marriage is a sacred union for life.

  • Genty

    No mention of God anywhere in the comment or the substantive article. Funny, that

  • Desperate Dan

    She may be predictable Katherine, but the problem is there could be a majority of sincere Catholics who agree with her. Again I say don’t let’s get into a us and them mentality!
    Why can’t we concentrate and refocus on the supreme love of God and ask in each and every case “what would Jesus want in this case.” Can you not ses there has to be a paradigm shift in our thinking otherwise it’s an argument no one ever wins . Pope Francis isn’t arguing ….

    • Wake up England

      Desperate Dan

      It appears, from simple observation, that many bishops agree with her too.

      Perhaps she also receives a sympathetic ear in Rome too?

      Next step: suppression of the highly inconvenient Catechism of the Catholic Church? It’s very judgemental, you know; perhaps Father Iggy O’Donnovan, Hans Kung and Timothy Radcliffe could re-write it to be more in step with the “Spirit” of Vatican Two?

  • Dave Dimal

    She doesnt have a clue on what she’s talking about…all of the things she said is an oxymoron, if she truly realize it….This an article of bragaddocio out of ignorance and out of pride….

  • Augustine

    From Tina Beattie’s blog (Thursday, 19 November 2009)

    “People often ask why I remain in the Roman Catholic Church. ….To leave the church would be to abandon all this into the hands of the most repressive and joyless of bigots…..”

    Spoken like a true liberal.

    But with true modesty she fails to mention that she has made a name for herself by her brave and courageous attacks on the “Evil” Empire (aka the Mystical Body of Christ) ;-)

    • Owen Meany

      To complain about someone not wanting to leave the church in the hands of repressive and joyless bigots would appear to be siding with those very same bigots.

  • BJC

    Let’s not forget Tina Beattie’s connection to ACTA. She was reportedly at the inaugural meeting in London. Notice that in her comment above she’s supporting 4 of the 5 points below which I think we all know are their true aims:

    1. Rejection of Humanae Vitae – acceptance of contraception.
    2. Rejection of the the Church’s teaching on conscience, and it’s replacement by a new flexible individualistic interpretation.
    3. Women priests
    4. LGBTs to be able to have full sexual relationships and the Church neither to criticise this or call it sinful
    5. The Magisterium of the Church to be replaced by a Magisterium of the People; morals and teachings of the Church to be decided in a more ‘democratic’ way

    As an aside, I’ve also noticed this new posting on the ACTA website:

    “Listen to Terry Duffy on Radio Lancashire as to who really is the dissent group, ACTA or Protect the Pope ?”

    http://www.acalltoaction.org.uk/11-news/187-terry-duffy-on-radio-lancashire

    By the way Mrs Donnelly, what does the M stand for so we can address you by your Christian name.

    • Dear BJC

      Thanks for bringing that radio interview up.

      The article Radio Lancashire were referring to was the one we had written about institutional dissent in the Archdiocese of Liverpool. As such, we wrote a response to Terry Duffy’s interview at our website on Monday 3rd March.

      (We’re not too au fait with getting links to work at present but it can be scrolled to on the news/blog page at our website).

      Yours in Christ
      Alan and Angeline

      • BJC

        Alan and Angeline

        Good for you.

        Thanks for sticking up for the faith. At every corner we have to challenge these people and not let them make a monkey out of the gospel.

    • What does the M stand for?

      Mrs

      ;)

  • Lynda

    Ms Beattie’s ignorance of the Faith and her inability to reason is so great, it is like a parody. And any unconfessed mortal sin precludes one from receiving Our Lord in the Holy Sacrament of Communion. If one really wants to receive Our Lord, one can do it. Refusing to be in the state of grace, is an act of the will, a refusal to keep the Lord’s commandments.

  • Paul

    Well the obvious is obvious…….wait i smell a heretic…….bring back the inquisition……….some people will do so much damage to protect their own disobedience. One thing is to commit grave sin another is to promote it onto others…… when will people hear his speech. IF YOU LOVE ME OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. love is obedience Love has rules it is not anarchic love but ordered obedient and precious. I pray that she sees the errors of her ways but let God’s will be done

  • outright rejection of the teachings of the one holy roman catholic church makes her a heretic and a modernist who would be welcome in the local -so called-church of england!why doesn’t she defect? god bless .philip johnson.

  • Mary

    Consider:

    “He drew a circle that shut me out -
    Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
    But Love and I had the wit to win:
    We drew a circle that took him in.”
    (Edwin Markham, 1852-1940)

    Catholic means “universal” – yes? And as it happens I love bananas. Can’t help it!

    • Jacqueline Y.

      Catholic in Greek means “according to the whole”, that is, all of Christ’s teachings , for all people, of all times. Prof. Beattie and ACTA want to subtract from the whole. They want to remove, inter alia, Christ’s teaching on marriage found in Matthew 19. They also want to sent up a counter-authority against sacred tradition and the Church’s Magisterium.

      Edwin Markham was a fine American educator and poet, but using his poem “Outwitted” in support of dissenting Catholics resembles fundamentalists using snippets of Sacred Scripture as proof-texts.

  • Desperate Dan

    Just thinking, isn’t it better to be a seeking ACTA Catholic Christian than a banana !

  • It sounds like an implicit announcement that she has left the Church.

  • Does this count as Religion, Society or Human Flourishing? Not Catholicism, anyway.

  • Margaret Allain

    This is the lady who the BBC always ‘call in’ on Catholic discussions. How awful, to be responsible for denying the truths of the Church with this usual ‘being nice’ to everyone. The narrow way is so very hard but we can only manage it with God’s love.

  • Well Tina is just being honest. She has moved `beyond Jesus` and she has come to the conclusion that his judgmental rules on marriage and divorce,adultery, and yes the family itself are just stupid. But then maybe she will agree with Jesus when he said that we should hate our Father and Mother before we follow him. It must be boring for her having to give him lip service in order to provide a decent living for herself. If only people would build a Church with her as the rock.

  • Patrick Fahey

    Am I right in thinking that someone who disagrees with the teaching of the Church is a protestant – I think there are 40000 other ‘churches’ she could join in good conscience.

  • solly

    To be noted that her idea of formation did not include the word ‘obedience’.

  • I remember reading Tina Beattie’s original response to the questionnaire (bits of which I picked apart on my blog http://cumlazaro.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/hannukkah-consultation-on-marriage-and.html) and thinking how incredibly odd it was. No misgivings at all? Not even the shadow of a doubt? How on earth could a Catholic of any sort not feel concern that ‘my husband is not a practising Christian and my children have all left the Church’? How could someone look at their children cohabiting (presumably as part of their conscientious ‘leaving’ of Catholic teaching) and not worry at all?

    Progressives tend to accuse the orthodox of avoiding the messiness of everyday life. Frankly I find the consequence free Cockaigne of the progressives far more airbrushed.

  • The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was solemnly promulgated by Pope John Paul II in 1992, teaches that there are explicit kinds of human acts, specified by the object of moral choice, which are always morally wrong because a willingness to choose an object of this kind demonstrates a disordered will (i.e., moral evil). The Catechism explains that, “A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting ‘in order to be seen by men’). The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts – such as fornication – that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.” (1755).

    The same Catechism identifies various kinds of intrinsically evil acts, proscribed by absolute norms. For example, the intentional killing of the innocent (2273), specific examples of which are infanticide (2268) abortion (2273) and mercy killing or euthanasia (2277); masturbation (2352), fornication (2353) adultery (2380-2381) and homosexual acts (2357).

    If one is to be faithful to Christ and His Church, one may not assert that what the Magisterium teaches is false and that the faithful possess a right to reject its teaching and substitute it with their own opinions or those of dissenting theologians. But this is precisely what Professor Beattie is suggesting.

  • confused

    BJC. I completely agree with your banana comment. Whatever your view on sexual ethics this is simply a matter of logic is it not? “Catholic” is defined one way and Tina Beattie does not fit the definition. Therefore she is not a Catholic.

    But, and this is something that I think loyal Catholics are reluctant to face up to, if the above logic is sound then somewhere between 98 and 99% of people who call themselves Catholic are not Catholic. This means that of the 5 million nominal Catholics in the UK, only 50,000 are really Catholic. That makes the number of Catholics (and consequently our claims to influence) rather small.

    Claiming that there are 5 million Catholics in the UK is therefore equally inconsistent as Dr Beattie claiming to be a Catholic. They are two sides of the same coin.

    By all means go with a definition of Catholicism which excludes huge numbers of people, but you must therefore be resigned to Catholicism being a tiny minority in the UK.

    • BJC

      Confused

      I’d agree the numbers of fully believing and fully understanding Catholics are small, if not tiny, but I think we do have influence. The majority of people in any group follow what the most committed people believe, so the way I look at is that it’s the Catholic hardcore against a heretical liberal hardcore.

      Their numbers are tiny as well, but they have an influence beyond this, because they’ve come to occupy the all important ‘switching points’ within the Church, e.g. media, university positions, seminaries, catechetical resources and even of course some episcopacies. It gets more complicated still because within the liberal hardcore, there’s a spectrum from 1-10, so not everyone rejects and/or adds the same heretical beliefs.

      We are a thorn in their side because “they think they’ve won”, and the existence of blogs like this is telling them they haven’t conned everyone. What we have to do is re-occupy the ‘switching points’ and things will change. How long will it take? Well, let’s not hold our breath, because I think we all accept we are talking 25-30 years minimum and in all probability 3 figures.

      As for Tina Beattie I suspect she rejects a good deal more than she lets on, and it’s not confined to Humanae Vitae that’s for sure. She’s admitted to me online she’s never read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (and made a joke out of it) and I think she was happy to be badly catechised when she became a Catholic. It gave her an excuse to become something she wasn’t.

      I’ve had exchanges with her on the internet and from memory she seems to have a problem with papal infallibilty and eccclesiology. I’d be also very surprised, given her view on women priests, that she believes in the mass as a sacrifice on an altar offered up by a priest. It’s more likely that she thinks she’s standing round a table eating bits of bread and drinking wine. In one sense she’s open about what she rejects, but like all liberals she goes into “cover up” mode about others. Liberals don’t do transparency as we all know, they just demand it from others to deflect attention away from themselves.

      • BJC

        Forgot to add.

        There are two other areas of Catholic teaching that I detect Tina rejects – the Magisterium and the sources of revelation. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest she’s got her own definitions of these.

    • Nicolas Bellord

      Confused: I do not know where you get your figures of 98 and 99% from, although I would accept that the figure is probably in excess of 50% but I have no real evidence. However I think there is a difference between a Catholic who has not been taught the faith properly, has not been preached to as to the doctrines of the faith and has probably noted what dissidents like Tina Beattie have said; even worse what certain ordained clerics have said. These Catholics may well not be culpable in their ignorance or non-acceptance of the teachings of the Church. They are however in a radically different position from the likes of Tina Beattie. She is the Director of an Institute founded and funded by a Catholic religious order which had the word “Catholic” in its title. She removed that word and substituted “human flourishing” thus hijacking a Catholic institute to I know not what. She has had the opportunity and privilege of studying the teaching of the Catholic Church at the expense of Catholics at least partly. She has chosen to reject that teaching and to use her position to assert the contrary making use of the privileges she has to disseminate her dissident views. As I say that is radically different from many Catholics in the pew who either through ignorance, poor formation or listening to the likes of her have views not in line with the Church. I would call them merely misguided Catholics; I would not honour Beattie with the title of Catholic.

      I wonder whether any Bishop has invited her to shut up for a period and reflect on truth, charity and the unity of the Church.

      • confused

        98% is sometimes cited as the number of “catholic” women who use artificial contraception. The numbers of heretics might not be quite so high on other issues.

  • Joseph Matthew

    I think it fair to say that I have as an orthodox Catholic more in common with many Protestants, Greek Orthodox, Orthodox Jews and Muslims than with Dr Beattie.One of us will have to ask the question whether we are Catholic because we both cannot be.

  • Amanda Peter

    I invite Tina Beattie to read St Thomas Aquinas Q183-189 dealing with states of life. Absolute perfection belongs to God alone . There is perfection for man who enjoys the beatific vision in heaven and there is relative perfection for the wayfarer here below engaged in the journey. He says this perfection is possible to attain on earth but it requires firstly removal from life of all mortal sin. Secondly it consists in getting rid of all attachment or appetite which hinders a person from attending wholly to God. He says it is possible to have charity without full perfection but it is impossible to have charity without freedom from mortal sin. He continues and says primarily and essentially perfection consists in obeying the Commandments.

    Listening to Tina Beattie she is one disobedient soul with a disobedient mind and will. She needs serious prayers . She strikes me as being so far off the mark. She advocates for sin rather than for God!!!!!

  • Owen Meany

    “If she’s a Catholic, I’m a banana.”

    I always wondered what the B stood for in BJC. Now we know.

  • Joseph Matthew

    During the time of Pope Benedict Dr Beattie found it increasingly difficult to be invited to spread her dissent. Is she now basking in the sunshine known as the spirit of Francis?

  • John M

    She is a Catholic. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic, until such point as the person formally renounces their faith. However promoting a view that is contrary to the teachings of the Magisterium is heresy. It really is hard to see how the some of the views expressed by her, as stated above, can be in accordance with the teachings of our Church.

    • Lyn

      Agree. This is the reality we face. I don’t understand why Deacon Donelly has been asked to refrain from commenting on his blog. He has been asked to enter into to a period of prayer – well , dear Bishop Campbell that means ” be quiet “, does it not ?

  • exsurge

    The ‘ church’ is getting smaller, eg 85% of Irish priests think they should be allowed to marry, most catholics think contraception and gay marriage is fine… There is a massive falling away from the faith which is far worse than we realise. Lord have mercy on us all

  • Nicolas Bellord

    It is worth reading Mario Palmaro’s last essay about Cardinal Kasper:

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/mario-palmaros-last-essay-caspers.html#more

    In it he quotes Roberto de Mattei:

    Roberto de Mattei wrote in this regard:

    “The new moralists who have been referred to by someone as ‘porn theologians’, have replaced the objectivity of natural law by the ‘person’, understood as a planned will, divorced from any normative foundation and immersed in a historical and cultural context, in other words, in a situational ethics. And because sex is an integral part of the person, the role of sexuality is named as the ‘primary function of personal growth’, also because, according to her testimony, the Council taught that only in the dialogic relationship is only realized with the other person, they quoted in this context the notion, I need the other in order to be myself ‘, based on the number 24 of Gaudium et Spes , the Magna Carta of the post-Conciliar Progressivism. “

    Reading some of Tina’s writing I can see why some are referred to as “porn theologians”.

  • Welsh Gareth

    All part of the Church of Nice. Be nice to everyone. Confirm people in their sin.

    “Go and sin no more” — oooh. How judgemental! It would sooooo upset my gay friends.

    *grabs vomit bag*

  • Lynda

    The main cause of the vast majority of Catholics not keeping the commandments is that dissenter priests and bishops and other cowardly ones have not taught the Faith and morals for nigh on 50 years. The seminaries and Catholic schools were for the most part taken over by enemies of the Faith many decades ago. Two generations have not been taught the Faith and fundamental morality from parish or school, but rather misled. Unless one was lucky enough to have strong, committed orthodox Catholic parents to teach one, the truth, despite parish and school, one would not get the truth, unless one sought to educate oneself as an adult, realising that one had been misled. The general apostasy has come from our teachers, our spiritual leaders, down.

    • Augustine

      Sadly there is indeed so much ignorance about the Catholic Faith.

      This should help us all realise how important it is to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church – which is a summary of the authentic teaching of the Church.

      Buy it and read it.

      And support the School of the Annunciation.

      Sign up for courses – and support it financially.

  • Mack

    T Beattie is taking her view of morals from the culture, which is sadly deranged when it comes to matters of sexuality.
    Karol Wojtyla gave an outstanding analysis of these issues in his book “Love and Responsibility.” He points out that true love seeks the good of the beloved, and mere pleasure is not of itself the good to be seeking. Basically, it is a utilitarian attitude that seeks to maximize sexual pleasure at the expense of the true good of persons. This good can only be realized in authentic marriage between a man and a woman.

  • David

    Reminds me of an apropos quote from “Professor Theophilus”:
    Student: “You must think my relationship with my partner is just dirt!”
    Professor: “No, I respect friendship wherever I find it — your friendship with your partner included. It’s just that sex doesn’t make every kind of friendship better.”
    (http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0115.htm)

    It may be true that her childrens’ “live-ins” have enriched them all by their friendships. But she seems to completely miss the possibility that the friendship might be a blessing in spite of (not because of) the fornication. Likewise her homosexual friends.

    • Lynda

      Friendships built on sin, in thoughts, words, acts or omissions, are not true friendships. Where there is fornication, there will also be other sin.

  • Graeme J A Taylor

    What a bore this silly little woman is. Go join the church of England love, you will be made more than welcome with your piffle and such false “care” towards sinners who, in their arrogance, refuse to repent.
    Maybe she is related to Card. Kasper, he’s another prize blether.

    • peter

      Graeme

      I posted many times on this site that it is wrong to ask someone to leave the catholic church even when one disagrees fundamentally disagrres them.
      peter

      • Lynda

        If one does not accept the doctrine of the Faith and morals, one has, in effect, apostatised. To be excommunicated in such circumstances would be for the good of ones soul, as well as the many scandalised by non-action against such enemies of the Faith.

  • Wake up England

    Why is Ms Beattie not asked to observe a period of prayer and reflection for distorting the Catholic Faith out of all recognition?

    The bishops appear to think she’s a Very Good Thing.

    Given the suppression of Deacon Nick and the active promotion of ACTA are we soon to see the suppression of the Catechism of the Catholic Church? It must be a bit of a stumbling block for modern nu-catholic bishops and priests.

    • peter

      WuE
      hope you are well.

      As I’m sure you are aware the bishops have no canonical authority over Tina Beattie.
      peter

      • Lynda

        Her priest and bishop certainly have positive duties with regard to her soul and all priests, bishop and the Pope have a duty to the souls of those she may influence in their respective flocks and generally. Their purpose is to save souls; she and those who constantly and publicly attack the doctrine of the Faith and morals, endanger countless souls. Therefore, action is required to defend souls from death.

  • [...] Nick Donnelly has been asked by the Bishop of Lancaster to stop posting on his Protect the Pope site and undergo a “period of prayer and [...]

  • Scott W.

    “I do not experience guilt”
    “I do not feel ashamed”
    “I do not feel compelled”

    Well, I’d say it’s a good thing we don’t worship Beattie’s feelings.

    • Lynda

      These are all signs of a deadened conscience. Continual mortal sin without repentance and absolution deadens the ability to discern right from wrong, it reduces the faculties of reason and the will.

  • Tim

    You’re a banana.

  • Unfortunately, yet another “nut” for The Squirrel Convention. I’m so sorry she’s at odds because SHE CANNOT SHARE THE SACRAMENTS with her divorced and remarried friends. Oh, I forgot this is a party, pass the snacks. Puhleeze!

  • Clare A

    So she ‘respects’ the Church’s teachings on marriage and family, but not when it actually impinges on her life. What sort of ‘respect’ is that?

  • P F

    This website should go into hibernation as advised by the Bishop of Lancaster.

    Its continuation, edited by the same surname, is an offence and unacceptable.

    • Lynda

      So you know of a just reason for requiring the suspension of a blog of a Catholic whose reports are all in conformity with the Faith and morals. The Faith, and the disciplines of the Church always conform to reason, to truth. Arbitrary decisions are not a part of the Faith or the administration of the Church. The Church is necessarily opposed to arbitrariness and tyranny. Those who act arbitrarily in the name of the Church, do so without authority, and in fact are acting in opposition to the moral law and Church law.

  • D

    To quote a couple of famous sayings:

    “Jesus said to his disciples: ‘You have learnt how it was said: You must love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; in this way you will be sons of your Father in heaven, for he causes his sun to rise on bad men as well as good, and his rain to fall on honest and dishonest men alike.
    For if you love those who love you, what right have you to claim any credit? Even the tax collectors do as much, do they not? And if you save your greetings for your brothers, are you doing anything exceptional? Even the pagans do as much, do they not?
    You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

    “There, but for the grace of God, go I.”

  • This website should go into hibernation as advised by the Bishop of Lancaster.

    Its continuation, edited by the same surname, is an offence and unacceptable.

    How can a surname edit a blog?

    Anyway, the bullying seems now to be directed at the good deacon’s wife, who has made no canonical promise of obedience to the bishop. In fact, Deacon Nick was asked to take a break from blogging, and not any one else. No offence committed, and quite acceptable.

  • Q

    Every time i consider joining the church i only have to come on line and see the bitterness and hatred expressed to be reminded why i falter.

    I yearn to join the true church yet it seems so obsessed with catholicism over christianity – to all the self-righteous commenters who parade their orthodoxy, i wonder where is the compassion supposed to be at the heart of their faith? They take (the sin of) pride in parading their orthodoxy as if God prizes this above the core teaching of Our Lord. Oh they will respond in terms of “tough love” but it seems plain to me that the spirit of their remarks has little to do with love at all.

    I sometimes honestly wonder whether they are so obsessed with judging others that they don’t actually, truly believe they will be judged themselves. And they prefer to bury their nascent doubts in their orthodoxy.

    • Q – not sure how orthodoxy can be contrasted with the core teaching of Our Lord. The core teaching is orthodox.

      I certainly take to heart the observation in one of the church’s documents (Guadium et spes: 19) that “Undeniably, those who willfully shut out God from their hearts and try to dodge religious questions are not following the dictates of their consciences, and hence are not free of blame; yet believers themselves frequently bear some responsibility for this situation. For, taken as a whole, atheism is not a spontaneous development but stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious beliefs, and in some places against the Christian religion in particular”

      However, do not mistake the fervour and strong desire for the truth for self-righteousness, bitterness or hatred. I know that my personal preference is to express things slightly differently sometimes but I know this is my preference – it does not stop others from being right. Do not let this be an excuse to fail the yearning for the Church you experience. May God Bless you.

    • Nicolas Bellord

      Q – why do you yearn to join the Church? I find it difficult to guess what motives you in such a way that the utterances of a few in that Church puts you off. I adhere to the Church in the hope of salvation and eternal life – I do not let something that upsets me said by others put me off.

    • Lynda

      You seem confused as to the content of the unchanging Faith – which is orthodoxy. You need an orthodox priest to teach you the Faith. I presume you assent to the Catechism. Read the magisterial teachings of the Church – these are an essential part of the deposit of Faith to which one must assent to become Carholic. I fear you may have been led astray by those positing a false Catholicism. Relativism and sentimentalism are not of the Faith. I hope you learn the true Faith and assent to it. I’ll say a prayer for that intention.

  • D.A. Howard

    I sympathize with you in England. I am from the U.S. and have several English friends. With homosexual marriage, it is tough to fight the dissidents. God bless you all.

  • Ian in England

    Q: Please come into the Church. Look to Jesus, not His less-than-perfect disciples.
    On the subject of bitterness and hatred: Yes, sometimes we fall into those sins, but a disciple of Christ must also (in love) tell his brother that he is sinning. “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.” Gal. 6:1. It’s not a question of my being proud to be right and ever so pious, but it’s a loving action to try to bring my brother off the road to Hell and back onto the road towards Heaven, in other words, to save his soul from the eternal damnation his sin would cause him.
    When you see bitterness and hatred, please forgive those people and pray for them, won’t you?

  • peppermint

    Makes sense.

    Marriage the ceremony in which everyone dresses up and then eats cake, and two people inform the world that they’re fornicating (TMI!), is a booming industry.

    Meanwhile, marriage, as in the sacramental life in which a man and a woman pledge themselves to each other and to raise children together, is largely dead, and cohabitation is pretty much just as good.

    If remarriage is okay, so is gay marriage and plural marriage. If marriage is about dressing up and eating cake, remarriage and gay marriage and plural marriage are all okay.

  • peppermint

    after all, we wouldn’t want to deny anyone the chance to have their special day to eat some cake. As many times as they want it.

    [moderated comment]

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