BBC link Norway terrorist with Knights Templar in effort to keep focus on ‘Christian fundamentalist’

In what must be the most bizarre report on the terrorism in Norway the BBC highlight the terrorist’s links with the Knights Templar, even providing a potted history of the Knights Templar. The reason for this ridiculous spin on Breivik’s killing spree is due to his involvement in a 12-minute anti-Muslim video called Knights Templar 2083.

Taken this extremely tenuous connection the BBC website provides a side-bar of information about the Knights Templar:

  • Western military monastic orders that existed from 12th-14th Centuries
  • Reputed to possess great wealth and power
  • Fighting members took part in Crusades
  • Many organisations today bear the Templar name – charitable ventures, bodies within lay Catholicism and within Freemasonry
  • White supremacists, apparently including Anders Behring Breivik, also inspired by Knights Templar

Protect the Pope comment: Instead of focusing on Breivik’s links with Neo-Nazism or European racist anti-immigrant groups, the media has been pushing the line that he was a ‘Christian fundamentalist terrorist’. But as the former prime minister of Norway said after 10,000 Norwegians attended Mass at the Lutheran Cathedral of Oslo today, this attack has got nothing to do with Christianity.

The BBC’s ridiculous link to the Knights Templar is a desperate attempt to maintain their false spin on this appalling outrage, and is an insult to all the Norwegians who attended Mass and prayer services today as they try to come to terms with the murder of so many young people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989

 

 

 

 

34 comments to BBC link Norway terrorist with Knights Templar in effort to keep focus on ‘Christian fundamentalist’

  • Håkon

    BBC get has gotten their facts right, the terrorist is a part of a group called “The Knights Templars”. In the interrogation, he said he was part of said group and was fighting to free the west from middle eastern oppression. He also said that the group was a christian-military group. This may all be lies, but those are he’s exact words.

  • fd

    Yesterday I flicked through the websites of Italian newspapers.
    The left wing papers La Repubblica, L’Unità, Il Fatto Quotidiano,Il Manifesto and Liberazione all had in capital eye-catching letters the words CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST in their headlines on the story. I bet they all agreed to emphasize this word which carries little meaning to me.
    Did this man go to Mass? Did he pray ? Did he do good for others? Did he consider others as their next?
    I’m sure the more they look into his previous life,the less he can be longer definied as “Christian”.
    It’s absurd to say that just as there’s an islamic fundamentalism there’s also a Christian fundamentalist.
    This man was just mentally ill ! What has Christianity got to do with that?
    BTW I watched the Pope’s Angelus on Italian TV today and the Pope said he was in mourning and prayed for the victims and asked people to do so.

  • fd

    Nevertheless I’ve just seen now on the web that L’Unità reports that AMONG THE VARIOUS MESSAGES BY THE NORWEGINA TERRORIST THERE’S ONE WHERE HE INSULTS AND THREATENS THE POPE !

  • fd

    La Repubblica has now even gone further. On its website, instead of talking of “SHOOTING SPREE” which is the right word, it prefers to use the word CROCIATA, which means CRUSADE.Their big headline is :”THE CRUSADE HAD BEEN ANNOUNCED ON YOU TUBE” instead of “the shooting spree …” .Why don’t we call a spade a spade as you say in English or why don’t we call the things by their name as the Bible teaches us to do?
    Using pseudo-religious terms like crusade, which have nothing to do with the atrocities which have been perpetuated by this terrorist in Norway,is a way to “keep focus” on Christianity as Rev Nick has emphasized. Nevertheless, if there’s one thing for certain in this murky and gruesome event it is that CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT

  • Karla

    I don’t know abo his connection or ideas abou the Knights Tepler, but the BBC and other news networks and newspapers need to get their facts straight. There are neo nazis and white naionalists who are Christian, but they are not traditionally Christian, they believe in Aryan Christianity and I don’t think they believe in a Jewish Christ, which does not make sense because Christ was Jewish, these news media netowkrs ned to specify and be clear. His motivations were his hatred for immigration in to Norway, a far right nationalist, his motives were not inspired by th Bible, unlike Islamic terroists who say they are inspired by the Koran or political Islam.

    I dont understand why they are labeling him as a Christian terroist, can you imaginr if a secular person or a Hindu for example mass mudered 90 people that the news would call that person ‘Hindu terroist’ or a ‘secular terroist.’ You should only call that persnal ‘Hindu,’ or ‘secular’ or ‘Christian’ in frony of ‘terroist’ if there is a connection btween their crimes and religious or in the case of secularism, non religious beliefs.

  • Anon

    See for yourself what the killer believed, in his own words:
    https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1UPMWXTEq9DqhcWBXXRZhMwqDuYsiMahzVIpeK6s9-j0&ndplr=1&ndplr=1&pli=1

    So yeah, the BBC is not making this up or exaggerating it to promote some sort of anti-pope agenda.

  • A. Nicot

    The man wasn’t a neo-Nazi either. He counted amongst his heroes/interests Churchill and Max Manus.
    Nor was he necessarily a “white supremacist”. Just immigration/multicultural skeptic, much like many who frequent this blog.

    If you ask me, it smells like a set-up, not against him, but against people of the same mindset. And the Left is trying to focus on the “Christian right” part, as I expected.

    • Deacon Nick

      A. Nicot, Breivik is more than an ‘immigration/multicultural skeptic’, he is a terrorist who murdered over 90 innocent people in cold blood in an evil plot to foment a war between civilizations. No one posting on Protect the Pope has ever espoused violence. Breivik represents everything that opposes the morality of the Catholic Church and this website.

      Protect the Pope supports true multiculturalism, as expressed in Nostra Aetate and Gaudium et Spes, that we are all mutually enriched by the cultures of the human family. What this website criticizes is a false understanding of multiculturalism that suppresses the common Christian heritages of Europe.

      • A. Nicot

        That is what I am saying. I apologize if the opinion came across that I was diminishing the gravity of the attacks committed by this man, or associating any of you (or myself for that matter) with his crimes.
        But I remain with the comment that he wasn’t a “white supremacist”. He was not unlike many in Europe. He took his views far too far, from the moment he decided that working within the system wasn’t going to work for him, and that (in his view) violent uprising was the way to go.
        I am merely saying that he is, by extension, going to harm people who think as we do, since we will be associated with him, since he has no ties to anti-Catholic/conservative associations (excepting the Freemasons, but I understand he wasn’t a a particularly consistent member – and they’ve disowned him).
        I repeat that I in no way approve of anything he did or may have done that we do not know of yet. Nor do I wish to employ that anyone frequenting this blog is anything like him. Nor do I think he is in line with the views of the Church, myself, or any readers. I am simply saying we shouldn’t be so quick to “excommunicate” him, if you will. He will be associated with our branch of the politico-social spectrum, and we can’t escape that.

        Again, I apologize if this impression came across.

  • Amadeus

    Antes de ver este articulo de observe el video de Breivik lei varios articulos sobre el en los que las autoridades noruegas afirman que Breivik fue eximido de participar en el servicio militar de su pais. Luego hice una investigacion de los simbolos usados en el video de Breivik, de las vestimentas formales y militares que usa en el mismo y llegue a la conclucion de que sin duda Breivik es miembro del grupo de los Caballeros Templarios. En Wikipedia se puede encontrar un articulo excelente sobre el tema de los Caballeros Templarios en el que aparecen los mismos simbolos usados en el video de Breivik y queda demostrado su vinculo con la Iglesia Catolica desde su origen. Posteriormente encontre informacion de que la BBC publico un articulo en que llegan a la misma conclusion. En su inicio lo templarios se organizaron y participaron en las cruzadas para rescatar de los musulmanes los sagrados del cristianismo en Israel. En el caso de Breivik este expresa en su video que tambien se opone a la presencia de los musulmanes en Noruega, por su caracter belicoso, lo que es natural por ser descendientes de Ismael (hijo de Abraham), ya que la Biblia dice que Ismael y sus descendientes serian belicosos. Sin embargo, en su video, Breivik, ademas de su oposicion a los musulmanes, tambien expone su oposicion al comunismo. De todas maneras ninguna de sus ideas justifican su acto de terrorismo contra personas inocentes de naturales de su propio, utilizando explosivos y en otro lugar disparando con armas de fuego matando casi un centenar de jovenes y ninos.

    • Deacon Nick

      Google translation:

      Before seeing this article Breivik watch the video of several articles I read about in which the Norwegian authorities claim that Breivik was excused from military service of his country. Then I did an investigation of the symbols used in video Breivik, the formal dress and military uses in it and reach the conclucion that certainly Breivik is a member of the Knights Templar. In Wikipedia you can find an excellent article on the subject of the Knights Templar as they appear the same symbols used in video Breivik and demonstrated its link with the Catholic Church since its inception. Later I found information that the BBC published an article that reaches the same conclusion. In the beginning the Templars were organized and participated in the Crusades to rescue the Muslims holy Christianity in Israel. Breivik For this expressed in his video which also opposes the presence of Muslims in Norway, for their warlike character, which is natural as the descendants of Ishmael (Abraham’s son), because the Bible says that Ishmael and their descendants would be bellicose. However, in his video, Breivik, besides their opposition to the Muslims, also exposes their opposition to communism. Anyway, none of his ideas justify his act of terrorism against innocent people from their own natural, using explosives and elsewhere with guns shooting killing nearly a hundred youth and children.

  • ms catholic state

    Actually the Knights Templar were devout Catholics….who were eventually destroyed by the French King as they had become too powerful. So how could this nominal Protestant be a Templar?! Many people it seems have taken the symbolism and legend of the Templars….and adapted it as if it were their own….without the Catholic element. And even if he were a ‘fundamental Christian’….he would know the commandment ‘Thou shalt not Kill. He sounds more like a Nihilist to me by his actions.

    I believe the Knights do exist in some form today….but undertake charitable work instead of military..

    • E. Williams

      Actually, historically, it was not the King of France that hunted down and slaughtered the Knights Templar. It was the Catholic Church, who apparently felt that they were loose cannons. Not all were apparently slaughtered and I’m sure they have living descendents, but it’s kind of silly to think that the group still exists and even more ridiculous to think that this homicidal maniac was one of them. As far as the “thou shalt not kill” thing, fundamentalist and all other presumed Christians have slaughtered millions over the years. The papal edict for the Albigensian Crusades against the Cathars said “Put them all to the sword, man, woman, and child, and let God decide who are his.” The church slaughtered over 13 million “witches” in Europe and, of course, let’s not forget the Inquisition. Also, right after those commandments that include “Thou shalt not kill,” comes a long list of who you’re supposed to kill… Religion – the root of all evil….

      • ms catholic state

        Sorry….but it was the King of France that slaughered the Knights Templars….but of course it’s easier to blame the Vatican. There are many orders of Knights today…not necessarily descendants of the original knights….but they still call themselves knights.

        The Church conducts warfare only in self-defence….you might think of that when you contemplate the ‘shock and awe’ tactics of secular armies today and their pseudo wars! The Church never authorised the killing of 13 million witches…..and most witch hunts were Protestant affairs. The Inquistion claimed 3.000 – 5.000 lives in all its centuries of operation. And let’s not forget either the deliberate slaughter of 200.000 innocent Japanese in Hiroshima when Japan refused to surrender…and the insane loss of life incurred by legalised abortion. Secularists have taken more innocent blood in a one short century than all religions put together in the past 2.000 years. Evil and barbarism unparalleled. Thank God secularism is self destructing.

        • A. Nicot

          Actually, it was both.
          The King of France and the Pope both feared the Templar’s wealth and influence over both the religious heads of Europe and the Crown of France.
          Now, it would be foolish to say that the Church has never been politically motivated in its actions. Though certainly the Church has admitted wrong-doing in its unfortunate persecution of the Knights Templar (this madman not being a member of that noble organization)

          Mr. Williams, how many did the Inquisition sentence to death, exactly? As I understand, they in fact prevented many witch trials from resulting in the death of the accused, as most witch trials were neither endorsed by the Church nor by the governments of the nations they took place in. They were largely persecuted by mob-justice. In other occasions, priests or bishops on a local level would get involved, as would political figures, but it would be libel to say the church sanctioned these trials and persecutions. Also, let us not lie. 13 million witches, really? Considering Scandinavian countries didn’t even have a population of 1 million in a time as late as 1800 and France barely had 10 million by then, do you really think there were 13 million witches in the Middle-Ages? Considering what is considered a “witch” was an extremely low percentage of the population.

          • ms catholic state

            Nicot….sometimes I wish the Church were more involved in politics….or at least that Catholics would direct politics in a more Catholic fashion…instead of doing the bidding of secularism.

            For instance…we decry legalised abortion…but support the very political system that guarantees it. If we weren’t so quick to support secular democracy….then we might not have the hard slog of getting rid of legalised abortion and all the other avalanche of evils that are going to come our way…courtesy of secular democracy…which is a system that declares ‘we take no orders from God in the public sphere’.

      • actually atheism (another branch of satanism) is the root of all evil, heck when was the last time you ever seen a truly devout priest (Via St. Fraces De Sales for what true devotion is and a most excellent example of holiness) kill someone becuae he is indebted to him (like atheist drug traders do) need i remind you of your own beliefs it only wrong if you get caught. oh even more how about the 21st century being the bloodiest century on record with 1,000s of babies murdered in the womb each year, Islam is the religion of warfare. christianity is the religion of defense, and even at times we will gladly submit to death, for in heaven is much more. to have a few executed (know the church does allow captial punishment for the common good of society and the protection of life justice) to have one man out so to speak to save thousands as you dumb atheists would certainly agree with, also murder ( according to you) of an unborn child (via abortion) is okay. religous people (islam is not a religion) have reason to do good you don’t atheism is evil and the cause for the destruction of humanity and civilization as a whole

  • Justin

    It truth, this hutzpa is being done to cover the masonic links of the perpetrator.

    http://monitorpolski.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/anders-behring-breivik.jpg?w=222&h=373

    Why hasn’t the BBC given adequate converge to this man’s masonic past?

  • fd

    Various Italian newspapers-including the respected Corriere della Sera and Il Messaggero – report today that the Norwegian terrorist, in his messages, had threatened the Pope . I hope the police will look well into this, especially considered the fact that they have not ruled out yet whether he had any accomplice.

  • fd

    One of Corriere della Sera’s ( Milan-based and Italy’s newspaper of record) top opinionated editorialists-Claudio Magris- has written an extremely humane and profound article on this awful tragedy.
    Mr Magris says there’s no point in attaching ridicolous labels like “Christian extremist or fundamentalist ” to him because they’re totally off the point.
    The author tries to shed light on these atrocities quoting “the banality of evil” which is a phrase by the German philosopher Hannah Arendt who has coined this phrase in reference to the Nazi criminal Eichmann
    The article is so profound that I decided to post the translation by google here. Whereas the Italian article is written tremendously well the google translation leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately. I don’t have time to translate it though . I suggest you read it anyway. I’ ll post the original Italian version as well.

    Italian:

    http://www.corriere.it/editoriali/11_luglio_25/magris-infinita-idiozia-male_0c792edc-b681-11e0-b3db-8b396944e2a2.shtml

    GOOGLE TRANSLATION

    The infinite stupidity of Evil
    The pain, the sorrow of the world
    At the root of horror

    The infinite stupidity of Evil

    The pain, the sorrow of the world

    by Claudio Magris

    Until conclusive emerge – for now highly unlikely – evidence of a terrorist conspiracy, the unprecedented massacre is considered a fact of Norwegian crime, though of immense proportions. There are certainly many in the world and antithetical terrorist groups capable of any atrocity, but there’s also the crime – even more mysterious and more disturbing because they often seem unmotivated – that is born,
    organizes itself and is consumed in the mind of one individual, other than any even delusional political project.

    by Claudio Magris

    As he wrote in Corriere Pierluigi Battista, always look for the plot (though rational in its own way in his perversity), political and sociological explanation, an accurate collective unconscious is a way of reassurance, even abject identifying an order, a way of indulge in fantasies of enigmatic textures, but also inadvertently fundamentally frightening rewarding, gratifying as it is often dwell on the vague images of the nightmare, horror and fear. Interpret or try to interpret it gives more comfort, if not downright arrogant complacency in front of so many unsolved crimes on their opinions more or less hidden motivations seem more important (and more space in the newspapers) of the surveys, which are instead at the moment the first and perhaps the only thing that matters.
    Certainly, in the words of a parrot, but often trumpeted slogans sessantottesco true, “everything is political.” No one comes from the moon. Each is woven in the world in which he lives, he is a solitary misanthrope, or the most sociable of men living in the world and at least partially absorbs and mixes its own DNA that enters into it knowingly or unknowingly by external reality. There is no idea, passion, habit, desire, fear, behavior that is uniquely ours, it is true that, as the philosophers say the Scholastics, the individual is ineffable or at least that there is something ineffable in each, but this mobile and elusive shadow of our heart is rooted in social relations.

    That said, there remains a clear difference between the act of a person and an individual project, even if put in place a collective individual, organization. The Norwegian killer seems comparable, with high probability, the Landru or Jack the Ripper – they, too, like everyone else, children of their time – rather than murderers or dell’Italicus Fountain Square. It would be shameful to use it to blacken one or the other political movement. His gesture shows the continuing atrocious latency of evil, its ability to lash out at any unexpected moment, reveals our daily life together, side by side with evil, always lying in wait and sometimes alarmingly in action. That butcher of human beings also show the infinite stupidity and banality of evil and violence that so often we are shown almost wrapped instead of seduction, expressions of profound truths, but some kind of underworld, and the knife of Jack the Ripper appears to have attracted as the sword of an evil angel so many people, though certainly not the belly cut open and the suffering of the women he killed, the only real protagonists of that tragic history, in which he is even a wretched appearance. It’s a shame, but inevitable, to memorize the name of the assassin and Norwegian ones of his victims.

    That repeated mechanical and pull the trigger mechanism makes it look like the murderer of a monstrous assembly. Of course he too is a man whose humanity is not exhausted in his crimes, a man who must be punished but also protected under the law equal for everyone, even for heinous murderers, a man who probably have had his obsessions, his suffering , his fears. We can and must have respect – apart from the legal characterization of his actions and the pain they require – even for him, but not – according to the banal rhetoric of evil – because it is a murderess, but despite being a murderess. His crime is not just the most horrible thing, but even more stupid, more mechanical, more obtuse in his life. The murderer seems to have more than 90 people described as “a fundamentalist Christian”, a term devoid of any sense. Often, among other things, it incorrectly identifies fundamentalism with fundamentalism, especially religious, of one or another faith (Islam especially nowadays), and in general with a particularly intolerant of religious traditionalism. Fundamentalism has little or nothing to do with tradition, even with the more jealously the guardian and the immobility of a creed. Fundamentalism is not a traditional phenomenon, rooted in the past, but it is a purely modern phenomenon, characteristic of mass society and globalization, as well as – for example – the modern totalitarian fascism is a phenomenon fundamentally different from the authoritarianism of the past.

    That finger mechanically murderer should not lead to reflections on the quiet and affluent societies such as Norway or disquisitions of this kind. Other forms of evil – these certainly political, social, and community – come not only from society backward and barbaric, but also from civil and open societies, considered models of democracy such as the Netherlands and certain Scandinavian countries in which advance aggressive xenophobic movements in sharp contrast with the tradition of their countries. If xenophobia is stronger in the Netherlands and Spain, it probably derives from the fact that the culture of the latter, as in other countries, has preserved more fully the sacred sense of life that stands out strongly in many, many values ​​that must be challenged by those two or three core values ​​(eg equality of all citizens regardless of their sex, ethnic, religious or otherwise) that we consider to be absolute, not questionable and no longer negotiable. A lot, almost everything has to be optional, but not everything. When “everything is possible”, as Dostoevsky wrote to his horror, the world becomes horrible. But you can not make this a guilty murderer Norwegian, neither Christian nor a fundamentalist, it is sufficient to charge him more than 90 murders.
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  • Tim

    I hope that this reassures you, but Norway has a special place in my heart so I followed this tragic story reasonably closely (mainly on the BBC), and despite being someone who usually needs little excuse to think ill of religion, I have to say that I didn’t for a moment consider that the nutcase responsible was a “Christian Fundamentalist” in any meaningful sense. In fact until I read this post this morning, it hadnt crossed my mind that the man’s religious beliefs mighjt have anything to do with his actions.

  • The uncomfortable truth is that this was an act of anti-liberal extremism. The killer’s manifesto shows him to be a nationalist who sees himself as defending European civilization against multiculturalism and “Cultural Marxism”. For years I have tried to warn Catholics about right-wing extremism, though admittedly not always in a proper manner. Now right-wing extremism is staring at us in the face.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/24/suspect-posted-manifesto-before-mass-killing-in-norway/

    http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/norway-terrorist-anders-breivik-leav

    http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/why-right-wing-domestic-terrorists-a

    http://www.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=507198

    Nonetheless, I will gladly pray for justice to come to the killer and for healing to come to everyone he ruined.

  • Harry McNicholas

    Yes, the man called himself a Christian. There is no indication that he was a Neo Nazi or that he was tied in with a Neo Nazi group. Please do not give this BS. that Christians did not murder people. The Crusaders murdered hundreds of thousands of Muslim people in the Middle East and got off the hook from the Pope from committing any sin. Joseph Smith was strung up in Missouri by “good Christians”. Christians were slave traders for 1,800 years. However, this does not let the Muslims off either. Muslims bought and sold slaves up until about 1960. I visited the slave market in Riyadh and it looked like to me to have been used very recently. Hindu Kush means Hindu misery due to the thousands of Hindu people who died crossing the mountains as Muslim slaves. Both Christians and Muslim have murdered millions of people ever since they began to preach their fairy tales. This Norweigan is just carrying on a tradition.

    • ms catholic state

      The Crusades were military campaigns against Islamic invasion in the Middle East. Ever wonder why Mohammed had an army then?!! If it wasn’t for the Crusaders….Christian civilisation would never have flourished…and the world would be in a dreadful pre-Christian state.

      Atheism has caused the most suffering, brutality and deaths world wide…in one century alone. Atheists have no moral code and are completly without moral limits. The perpetrator of this massacre is of course carrying on in this atheist vein of no moral code. As the former Norweigan Prime Minister told a packed Cathedral and the world wide media…this atrocity had nothing to do with Christianity. Well said!

    • Beaumains

      Mr McNicholas, I’m afraid you’re sadly mistaken about the Crusades. The Crusades were organised in response to Islamic militarism that had been going on in the Dark Ages, and was still ongoing at the start of the Medieval period (it took Western Europe about a century to organise themselves a counter-attack). By then, Islam had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world, including the Byzantine stronghold of Asia Minor and most of Spain. The Crusaders saw themselves not as conquerors, but defenders. St. Bernard wrote of the Templars ‘You are the ones our Lord spoke of when he said ‘There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for a friend.’” Yes, Christians might have had slaves, but they also had moral obligations to their slaves’ well-being written clearly in the Bible. What do you want us to admit? That we are sinners? Yes, we are. That we don’t always hold up to the standards of what we profess (i.e. Crusader brutality)? Yes, but that doesn’t make us hypocrites, it makes us weak. please don’t go around blaming religion for these things when it’s the imperfections of men which cause such tragedies.

  • Ann

    The original “Poor Knights Of The Temple” (Knights Templar) were Catholic Knights: answerable to the Pope. They took vows of poverty & chastity. They were Catholic/Christian Knights in their beginnings.

    Pope Benedict is right in saying “…religious belief can never justify violence…” Not everyone who says they are a Christian: follows Jesus Christ. When will we learn to follow in the footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ?

  • Cherie

    Ann, you are totally correct. Anyone can say he is a Christian. But to truly be a Christian, Catholic or Protestant, means to walk in the footsteps of Christ. Jesus did not condone violence against persons. And neither does anyone who teaches true Christianity. Things that happened thousands of years ago, in the name of Christ Jesus, by people who don’t sound as though they were in connection with Jesus, are totally immaterial. Nothing that this terrorist did was something condoned by or called for by real Christians. “They will know you are Christians by your love”, and that you are not by your hate.

  • Mike

    This man may have called himself a christian, but this is not what Christ taught. He said Pray for those that are your enemies. This man may call Himself a Christian, but he is far from one. I can sit in a garage and call myself a car and make all kinds of noises like a car, but that will not make me a car.
    In the last 100 years there have been more people that have died in the name of no God then in all of History put together. Think about this, how many wars have we seen that had nothing to do with GOD.
    World War 1 and 2, Japan’s wars in China, Stalin,Killing fields etc etc etc. Man is all at fault, we talk about peace but it eludes us. Look within your own heart and see what is lurking.

  • warren nelson

    the tradegy is that he will spew his dogma, and is prepared to spend the rest of his life sitting alone doing it. humans are capable of both good and evil, and until we clearly understand that,we are doomed as a people to repeat acts like this that have no clear reason

  • MICK

    Ummm… So ya Im reading all these post and I got to tell you guys that maybe you have it all wrong. I dont know this guy and I dont know all the facts, and niether do you. We do know that he killed 90 innocent people, and in this day and age it doesnt matter if its 90 muslims, christians or jews. Its just an awful event that can not be turned back. I can see the why he would embrace the Knights Templar. Who did they fight in the Crusades? Who did they lose to in the Crusades? The Temlple Mount was used by the The Victors, The Muslims. So there of course, he sees how things are now. When Muslims just come in to a country and people have to start changing thier lives just for them. Its happening all over, now does that mean I would do what he did now of course not. I will try and live in peace with anyone and everyone I can. I will say this, I have read alot about Islam and I have read that Muhammed sent his followers out to raid caravans and to convert people to Islam. If you did not want to convert then they killed you. I never heard Jesus say anything of that nature. I dont know how much of that is true, I wasnt there. So all you self or college proclamied experts on the subject think you know it all, well guess what you were not there either. All in all what can anyone say about this that we can at least agree on, that this was a tragic life event that should teach people to come together not apart. Everyday people, people of all religions, race and gender that should unite with one voice and say to thier neighbor “I Love You”. Would that ever happen of course not. At least lets try and be positive……..

  • Tim

    If I may be excused for quoting a loony (please remove if you think it is not appropriate). This is what the killer himself says about religion

    I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment. In the past, I remember I used to think;

    “Religion is a crutch for weak people. What is the point in believing in a higher power if you have confidence in yourself!? Pathetic.”

    Perhaps this is true for many cases. Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength (to feed their weak emotional state f example during illness, death, poverty etc.). Since I am not a hypocrite, I’ll say directly that this is my agenda as well. However, I have not yet felt the need to ask God for strength, yet… But I’m pretty sure I will pray to God as I’m rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill. I know there is a 80%+ chance I am going to die during the operation as I have no intention to surrender to them until I have completed all three primary objectives AND the bonus mission. When I initiate (providing I haven’t been apprehended before then), there is a 70% chance that I will complete the first objective, 40% for the second, 20% for the third and less than 5% chance that I will be able to complete the bonus mission. It is likely that I will pray to God for strength at one point during that operation, as I think most people in that situation would….If praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. I guess I will find out… If there is a God I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past. (p. 1344)

    • Deacon Nick

      How misguided is that! Through his words he proves he knows nothing about Christianity. To compare his killing spree as the act of a martyr that will grant him access to heaven is just plain stupid and wrong. The word ‘martyr’ means witness, in the case of a Christian martyr, witness to the love and compassion of the crucified Christ. His murder of teenagers and fellow citizens only witnesses to evil and hate.

  • Karla

    Is ‘Christian fundamentalist’ label correct for Norway terror suspect?

    (CNN) – Given initial suspicions that Friday’s bombing and mass shooting in Norway were carried out by Islamic militants linked to al Qaeda, the way police ended up describing the suspect behind the attacks came as a big surprise even to many security experts: The alleged attacker was called a “Christian fundamentalist.”

    But experts on European politics and religion say that the Christian fundamentalist label could overstate the extent to which the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik – who has told authorities that he carried out the attacks – was motivated by religion, and the extent to which he is tied to a broader religious movement.

    “It is true that he sees himself as a crusader and some sort of Templar knight,” said Marcus Buck, a political science professor at Norway’s University of Tromso, referring to an online manifesto that Breivik appears to have authored and which draws inspiration from medieval Christian crusaders.

    My Take: Norway attacks shows terrorism isn’t just Islamic

    “But he doesn’t seem to have any insight into Christian theology or any ideas of how the Christian faith should play any role in Norwegian or European society,” Buck wrote in an email message. “His links to Christianity are much more based on being against Islam and what he perceives of as ‘cultural Marxism.’”

    From what the 1,500-page manifesto says, Breivik appears to have been motivated more by an extreme loathing of European multiculturalism that has accompanied rapid immigration from the developing world, and of the European Union’s growing powers, than by Christianity.

    “My impression is that Christianity is used more as a vehicle to unjustly assign some religious moral weight,” to his political views, said Anders Romarheim, a fellow at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies. “It is a signifier of Western culture and values, which is what they pretend to defend.”

    “I would say they are more anti-Islam than pro-Christian,” Romarheim said in reference to what appear to be Breivik’s views.

    The manifesto is religion-obsessed in that it rants for long stretches against Muslims and their growing presence in Europe.

    Who is Anders Behring Breivik?

    It calls for a European civil war to overthrow governments, end multiculturalism and execute “cultural Marxists.” The manifesto includes a link to a video asserting that the majority of Europe’s population will be Muslim by 2050 “unless we manage to defeat the ruling Multiculturalist Alliance.”

    The author of the document identifies himself as Breivik, but CNN could not independently verify that he wrote the document, and Norwegian authorities would not confirm that the man in their custody wrote the manifesto, saying it was part of their investigation

    Opposition to booming Muslim immigration to Europe, exacerbated by high birth rates in the Muslim community, has become a mainstay of Europe’s burgeoning far-right, helping right-wing parties gain seats in parliaments across the continent.

    But those right-wing movements are mostly secular. Europe’s hard right does not have deep ties to Christianity in the way that the United States’ conservative movement is entwined with evangelical Christianity and other theologically conservative religious movements.

    Recently adopted European laws aimed at curbing Islam’s public visibility, including France’s new burqa ban and Switzerland ban on minarets – towers that a part of mosques – were secular causes, not ones championed by Christian interests. Many Christian groups oppose such bans.

    “The bulk of the anti-Muslim sentiment is not against Muslims as such, but is a secular rejection of how some Muslims allegedly want to place Islam at the center of society,” Buck said. “It is more anti-religious than anti-Muslim.”

    Breivik’s apparent manifesto, by contrast, cites biblical verses to justify violence for political ends.

    “Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve,” it says. “It’s God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time.”

    “The biggest threat to Europe is the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist political doctrine of ‘extreme egalitarian emotionalism,’” the manifesto goes on. “This type of political stance involves destroying Christendom, the Church, our European cultures and identities and opening up our borders to Islamic colonization.”

    The video that’s linked to in the manifesto also includes some religious language: “Celebrate us, the martyrs of the conservative revolution, for we will soon dine in the Kingdom of Heaven.”

    Experts on religion in Europe said those faith-infused views are likely peculiar to the suspected gunman and do not appear reflect wider religious movements, even as they echoes grievances of Europe’s right-wing political groups.

    “He was a flaky extremist who might as well have claimed to be fighting for the honor of Hogwarts as for the cause of Christ,” said Philip Jenkins, a Pennsylvania State University professor who studies global religion and politics, describing the suspected Norway attacker. “He did not represent a religious movement. … People should not follow that Christian fundamentalist red herring.”

    At the same time, Breivik told investigators during interviews that he belongs to an international order, The Knights Templar, according to Norwegian newspaper VG, which cited unnamed sources.

    He described the organization as an armed Christian order, fighting to rid the West of Islamic suppression, the newspaper said. He also told investigators he had been in contact with like-minded individuals and said he counts himself as a representative of this order, it said.

    For many in Norway, the potential implications of the suspected killer’s religion are still settling in.

    “This is the first time we’ve heard of Christianity/religion as a driving force behind right-wing extremism,” Buck said. “The mainstream right-wing movements in the Nordic countries (very small and disorganized groups in Norway) would generally point to the Old Norse beliefs, if anything.”

    “Norwegian, Nordic and European society,” he said, “were totally unprepared for a violent attack from someone who calls himself Christian.”

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/25/understanding-christian-fundamentalist-label-for-norway-terror-suspect/

  • Paal

    As we soon going into cristmas time again and the horror story from Norway templar killings are going into statisticks, it would be interesting to compare the use of psycofarma and unmotivated killings in the society. It is already known that an increasing use of this kind of drugs do not decrease the number of killings done by psycical unstable persons, rather the opposite.
    It is also known that mostly all of the scoolkillings in different countries was done by people who was treated by psykiatrists and their drugs before the killings took place. What would be the normal way of making a conclution then on this fact? Would it be 1, give more money and more power to the psykiatry? Or would it be 2, close down the psykiatry and the drug fabrics?

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