À la carte Catholicism served up at A Call to Action meeting at Sacred Heart Church, Caterham

A reader of Protect the Pope has sent us eye-witness testimony of the A Call to Action meeting at Sacred Heart Church, Caterham, which was given the go ahead by Bishop Kieran Conry,  ordinary of the Arundel and Brighton diocese.

The meeting had been advertised in Sacred Heart Church’s newsletter as follows:

‘‘“A.C.T.A. (A call to action) is a movement within the  Catholic Church of England & Wales established in 2012 to work collaboratively and constructively with our Bishop to move our Church towards the aspirations of the Second Vatican Council. It has sub groups in almost every Diocese including our own. Five of our members met with Bishop Kieran recently, and he has approved meetings within his diocese. Our Parish is hosting the first of these Diocesan Meetings. It will take place on Saturday September 28th from 2pm until 5 pm in the Church, when the day will conclude with the vigil Mass for Sunday for those who wish to stay. We are delighted to have Tom O’Loughlin as our guest speaker. Fr Tom, is a former curate and is an eminent theologian and Church historian, specialising in Ecclesiastical History. His book There will be ample opportunity for everyone to express their points of view on the Catholic Church in the world today and our hopes for the future as members of the Church and as disciples of Christ, with respect for all that has gone on before in that openness of spirit that was the wish and mind of Pope John XX111 when he convened the Council in the first place. This vision has been continued through his successors and is now being revitalised under Pope Francis. The meeting is open to all.’

Here is our reader’s eye-witness testimony:

‘I left just as we were being broken into Discussion Groups, and I was not the only one. Wish I had the courage and knowledge to stay and argue but I was shaking the whole way through. First up, after some prayers asking for guidance, was a meditation about a round table; to make a round table hurts the wood and the people (?) but you end up with a table around which everyone sits in equality, no head of the table. No elaboration was given, but I imagine this is a hint of the levelling of the church hierarchy.

There was a talk by Brian Pointer, Chairman A&B ACTA, briefly outlining the origins of ACTA and how some single ideals which were overwhelmingly important to individuals had to be ironed out as they couldn’t accommodate too many aims and needed to have an agreed direction. They approached +KC who was very cautious at first but then relaxed (or should that be chillaxed?) with them, and when they asked if they could organise meetings in the diocese he said OK. This they took as endorsement of their being a “Catholic” organisation.

Fr Tom O’Loughlin seemed a very genial man, but did not hide his disdain for JP II or B XVI, or the new rite. He also said there was no such thing as the Hermeneutic of Continuity. He described himself as a Theologian of History, not of Doctrine.

There was quite a number of ACTA reps there, and Fr Ian Byrne (one of the seven signatories on that letter) was among the audience. As expected, the listeners were probably 90% bus pass holders. I would guess there were roughly 150 to 200 people but there had been a bad accident on the M25 so maybe some were waylaid.

Sorry not to have stayed any longer, but there was going to be a collection and recruitment drive and I just felt awful being there. The meeting is still going, but they are probably wrapping up to prepare for mass. Dear Lord, please protect our church.

Protect the Pope comment: A reader of Protect the Pope has sent us eye-witness testimony of the A Call to Action meeting at Sacred Heart Church, Caterham, which was given the go ahead by Bishop Kieran Conry,  ordinary of the Arundel and Brighton diocese.  According to this eye-witness testimony of ACTA’s meeting at Sacred Heart Church, Caterham, A Call to Action in Arundel and Brighton sees itself as a ‘Catholic organisation’ endorsed by Bishop Conry, which at the same time expresses disdain for soon to be canonised John Paul II and Benedict XVI, and disdain for the New Translation of the Roman Missal.  It appears that the good people of Sacred Heart, Caterham, were served the usual fare of a la carte Catholicism specialised in by dissenting Catholics.

Thank you BF for attending the Sacred Heart meeting.

38 comments to À la carte Catholicism served up at A Call to Action meeting at Sacred Heart Church, Caterham

  • IF Bishop Conry can’t control who meets in his diocese why did they feel the need to ask him?

  • Wake up England

    “No Such Thing as the Hermeneutic of Continuity”

    Round table meditations (with no-one at the head)

    This is NOT what the Second Vatican Council had in mind. It is NOT the “Spirit of Vatican Two” either.

    It’s absolutely NOTHING to do with Vatican Two. It’s subversive nonsense which is a cynical and twisted parody of Vatican Two.

    The fact that Bishop Conry is encouraging ACTA is a slap in the face for Jesus Christ and the Second Vatican Council.

    Judas Iscariot would be highly approving of this betrayal of Our Blessed Lord and his Holy Church.

    • Catholic Blogger

      “Judas Iscariot would be highly approving of this betrayal of Our Blessed Lord and his Holy Church.”

      On what scriptural basis is this assertion made? Didn’t Jadas Iscariot at the end realise that he had chosen the wrong path and couldn’t reconcile himself with what he had done to his Lord and Master, therefore commiting suicide?

      Hardly the actions of a person who at the very end of his life was highly approving of of “highly approving of this betrayal of Our Blessed Lord and his Holy Church.”

      • Wake up England

        “Catholic” Blogger:

        What I have written is really extremely clear. Inter alia vide St Mark ch 14 vv 10.

        If you are familiar with the teachings of the Church you will know that committing Suicide is a very Grave Matter indeed. It’s the sin of despair. The fact that Judas killed himself made his sins far worse, not better. You appear to see his suicide as a sort of meritorious repentance; this is certainly not Catholic teaching.

        Judas Iscariot was an Apostle. He betrayed Our Blessed Lord.

        Bishop Conry is – as a bishop – a successor to the Apostles. By encouraging ACTA he is betraying The Church which, as you know, is the visible body of Christ on Earth. Therefore Bishop Conry is (in my opinion) treating Our Lord in the same way as Judas did: by betraying him. The point (and comparison) I have made above is hardly intellectually challenging.

        Our Lord says it would have been better for Judas if he had never been born, which is an unequivocal condemnation.

        Do you believe in everlasting Hell, Catholic Blogger?

        • Catholic Blogger

          If Judas – after betraying his Lord & Master – still approved of the killing of his Lord & Master, why did he take his own life?

          The point is that he bitterly regretted what he had done, couldn’t handle it, and therefore committed suicide. End of Story.

          I made no reference whatever to repentance, etc..

          Now it follows that as at the end of his life he was of the state of mind that if he could “rewind the clock” he would not have betrayed his master, then he ultimately believed that he should follow his Lord & Master.

          Since there is no reference in scripture that he again changed his mind, we can only conclude that his last thoughts were fully in agreement with his Lord & master, or else why commit suicide?

          For the record, where scripture state that Judas is condemned to eternal damnation?

          • Catholic Blogger

            Last sentence should read “For the record, where does scripture state that Judas is condemned to eternal damnation?

          • Wake up England

            “Catholic” Blogger:

            You quite obviously have a very poor grasp of both basic Catholic belief and the Gospels.

            Are you in fact a Catholic? If so do you accept that the Catholic church per-dates all the Gospels; and in fact the Church chose which Gospels were to be included in the Bible and which were to be left out?

            You see, we believe the Church wrote the Gospels and She reserves unto Herself the right to interpret them. When Judas was betraying Our Lord SHE, THE CHURCH, WAS THERE AS IT HAPPENED, a first-hand witness.

            Therefore the Gospels are just one part of the Holy Tradition of the Church, The Magisterium, The Deposit of Faith.

            Your constant questioning of “Where does it say this or that in the Gospels?” is a Classic Protestant outlook, not a Catholic one.

            Our Lord roundly condemns Judas Iscariot, the traitor, by saying it would be better for him if he had not been born (Mark 14:21). Equal in authority to St Mark’s Gospel, the Church has constantly taught, since the time it happened, that Judas was inspired by the devil.

            Do you believe in the devil, Catholic Blogger?

            Equally, the Church has always taught that suicide is a grave matter; and furthermore She has always taught that sins involving Grave Matter (if committed with full knowledge and full consent) deserve everlasting hell.

            Do you believe in hell, Catholic Blogger?

            You can try to twist the teachings and traditions of the Church, if you like, and say that Judas was a Good Man; the view is hardly original: the Albigensian heresy, for one, shared your view wholeheartedly. But please don’t call heretical beliefs Catholic. They are nothing of the sort.

            If you are a Catholic, I am afraid you’re very badly ill-informed about the Catholic Church, her claims and her teachings.

          • Rob

            ” Equal in authority to St Mark’s Gospel, the Church has constantly taught, since the time it happened, that Judas was inspired by the devil.”

            Which doesn’t quite make sense. Surely Judas’s actions were completely necessary for the resurrection? and therefore part of God’s plan?

            If Judas is in hell then his sacrifice in fulfilment of this plan were greater than the sacrifice of Christ on the cross which doesn’t make sense either.

          • Wake up England

            If you choose to believe differently from The Church and the Gospels, then that’s your right.

            The Gospels (can’t remember which one(s), but it’s easy to look it up) says the devil entered Judas Iscariot.

            Our Lord says it would have been better for Judas had he not been born (or conceived in some translations) (Mark 14:21).

            The church has constantly taught the great evil of suicide.

            Your intellectual point about Judas’s betrayal being seminal to the death of Jesus (and therefore a vital cog in the wheel of Salvation) is extremely interesting. The Cathars (Albigensians) certainly were sympathetic to this view inter alia. But they were excommunicated and punished for heresy!

            The thing about the Catholic faith is that one must believe it all. Whether one understands certain aspects, or not (and somethings are holy mysteries);or whether we find some beliefs difficult or illogical, we are, notwithstanding, required to believe all God’s Church teaches. One simple Act of Faith:

            “O My God I believe in You and all Your holy Church teaches, because You have said it, and your word is true. Amen”

            This is the Catholic faith. You must have the whole menu – or go to another restaurant.

          • Catholic Blogger

            In response to the “Wake up England” posting at 3.15 p.m. on 30th September

            You state that the “the Church has always taught that suicide is a grave matter; and furthermore She has always taught that sins involving Grave Matter (if committed with full knowledge and full consent) deserve everlasting hell.”

            You further state, “If you are a Catholic, I am afraid you’re very badly ill-informed about the Catholic Church, her claims and her teachings.”

            This is what I believe abut Catholic Teaching concerning Suicide:

            I believe that grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

            I further believe that we should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

            Perhaps you could enlighten me as to where my understanding of Catholic Teaching is in error.

          • Wake up England

            Catholic Blogger:

            You are trying to be artful. Not very successfully. In fact you’re making a bit of a fool of yourself.

            I notice with interest you ask me many questions, whilst declining to answer the simple questions which I ask you. This not a sign of intellectual maturity, even at a simple level

            When paraphrasing the Catechism of the Catholic Church it is usual to credit your source.

            You attempt to use the CCC as a support for your own highly misguided ideas regarding Judas Iscariot. You have defended Judas’s actions of betrayal and his subsequent suicide. In so doing you are at variance with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

            Attempting to use paragraph 2283 of the CCC without any reference to the three preceding paragraphs is misleading, clumsy and not in the interests of the Truth. It is, in fact the kind of unintelligent manipulation of Church teaching one finds in The Tablet.

            Do you subscribe to all items as written in the Catechism; or only those which you have conveniently cherry-picked?

            Your views appear to be grossly distorted half-truths which are of your own fabrication.

  • Anna

    “Five of our members met with Bishop Kieran recently, and he has approved meetings within his diocese.”

    Conry must go!

  • Joseph Matthew

    I too have spoken to someone who attended an ACTA meeting. The technique is to pretend to be “moderate” even though the ultimate aim is to emulate Austria’s Call to Disobedience movement, as the speaker made very clear.So this is a liberal protestant sect within the Church.

  • Michael B Rooke

    À la carte. . Going to hell in a hand cart*?.

    * The mediaeval stained glass in St. Mary’s Church in Fairford, Gloucestershire includes an image of a woman being carried off to hell in a wheelbarrow or hand cart pushed by a blue devil. The stained glass windows were made between 1500-17.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/21000745@N02/6921156024/

    • Wake up England

      How extremely interesting. Next time I’m in Gloucestershire I’m off to see it in the flesh. Thank you for posting this. I’m particularly interested in the devil being blue.

  • Bob Hayes

    ACTA shares links with the Association of Catholics in Ireland. The report of the latter’s July meeting in Dublin well illustrates its heretical and dissenting nature – yet ACTA is willing to share a mutual link.

    Amongst ACI’s ‘main points’ are:

    ‘How relevant is the Old Testament?’ p. 11

    ‘Currently much emphasis on sacraments, little on justice.’ p. 11

    Amongst its ‘recommendations for action’:

    ‘Stop the cash. There should be a campaign of refusing to fund the church.’ p. 7

    ‘It’s a revolution we need, not just reform.’ p. 7

    ‘Create a space for “meaning making” to develop own liturgy.’ p. 12

    Amongst the obviously Protestant:

    ‘Too much emphasis on masses and liturgy. : Less mass- more bible.’ p. 14

    http://www.acireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ACI-Conference-Report-June-1st-2013.pdf

  • Deacon Nick Donnelly

    No idea! Deacon Nick

  • Myles Dempsey would state that there’s only one way to get rid of this sort of thing – serious prayer and fasting!!!!!!

  • Sonja

    Pope Francis also expressly stated that lobbying and the Lobbyists ‘are not good’ (that interview on the plane back from Rio). What is ACTA is doing?

    Just to remind you — here is the excertp:
    “The problem is not having this orientation,” he said. “We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.”

    BTW — this is not being vitriolic — this is being factual.

  • Deacon Nick Donnelly

    Sorry Ann for getting your surname wrong. I’ve corrected it. In what way is coming in the ‘spirit of Topcliffe’, not like being a ‘Topcliffe-like spy? Interesting semantic distinction. You mention Canon Law, so here’s can 750-752. I recommend to you and ACTA particularly 752

    Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

    §2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firm-ly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

    Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

    Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

    • Francis

      Canon 752

      Game, set and match.

      • Deacon Nick Donnelly

        Yes, canon 752 is the one canon dissenters studiously ignore. And it has its roots in the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 25, ‘This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.’

      • Francis

        Can. 212 #3 “They have the right……. they must always respect the integrity of faith and morals, “

  • Deacon Nick Donnelly

    Ann, the distinction you suggest between ‘spirit of Topcliffe’ and ‘Topcliffe-like’ is unconvincing. Someone in the ‘spirit of Topcliffe’ is surely like Topcliffe, otherwise why make the comparison. Deacon Nick

  • Rifleman819

    Deacon Nick ,

    Not aware this good but misguided lady has any authority to speak whatsoever about what is and what is not Catholic orthodoxy.

    Love the Topcliffe imagery -I wonder if this good lady sees the irony in using his name?

    Richard Topcliffe (1531-1604)…was responsible for the hideous torture of Fathers Garnett,Southwell and Gerard.

    ACTA and the 40 Martyrs of England and Wales….any commonality…?

    NONE.

  • Bob Hayes

    Is ‘spirit of Topcliffe’ like ‘spirit of Vatican II’?

  • BJC

    Ann

    You say this:

    “Others appear to show no respect for the integrity and good faith of individuals”

    Why are you so surprised? ACTA have behaved in bad faith from the beginning and we’ve now got it on record that 3 of your members told porkies to +Kieran about your true aims. Your group contains notorious serial dissenters like Sister Myra Poole, Fr Derek Reeve, Prof Mary Grey and others, so why would anybody believe all you want is “dialogue”. They’ve made a career out of rejecting Catholic teaching on the priesthood, Humanae Vitae, conscience and the Magisterium so why shouldn’t the rest of your group feel the same way?

    If you want other people to respect your integrity then you need to start acting with integrity. You could start by going back +Kieran and coming clean with him, as you could with all our Bishops, and end this pathetic charade of yours.

  • Rifleman819

    Ann Lardeur,

    “University training” might lead one to dissemble and then be very, very annoyed when unmasked……….

    BTW-Please get your facts right……Richard Topcliffe WAS a heretic who hunted the Faithful.
    Crikey we are confused , aren’t we?

  • BJC

    Ann

    Hate to tell you this but I can read too and it’s obvious to me that canons 750-52 apply to everyone. Not sure why you think it only applies to teachers rather than the taught, because that would rather undermine the whole point of having teachers in the first place wouldn’t it? Sounds like a recipe for chaos to me.

  • Canon 752 comes from Vatican II (Lumen Gentium)

    Are you one of these Catholics that rejects the Second Vatican Council?

  • Francis

    Lumen Gentium 25,

    ‘This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.’

  • “You will not find members of ACTA posting vitriolic comments…”

    You mean, such as comments comparing their opponents to Topcliffe, perhaps?

  • Francis

    Ann.

    “University training leads one to be precise.”

    Sorry but even in the distant past when very few people went to University, this was not always the case.

  • Sonja

    Ann — What do you mean ‘afraid of being found out’. At an Open Meeting seeking merely dialogue such as you suggest with the consent of our Shepherd Bishop KC — what is there to fear? Or is the fear more on ACTA’s part that this well known bog is able to give your meeting some well deserved exposure — but judging by your contribution not wholly in the light or spirit desired by your group.

  • Mrs. Lardeur, if you had any decency you would simply apologise for the slur ; instead you are falling over backwards in your attempts to “justify” it.

    Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour.

    Whereas, as far as I can tell, the indignation that people here are feeling towards your organisation of heretics is based on several doctrines that you yourselves have been promoting of your own volition and in your own words, and the FACT that they are objectively and/or formally and/or substantially heretical in their very nature.

  • Augustine

    More than merely confused.

    “University training leads one to be precise…….

    ACTA does not call itself a Catholic Organisation. You will see on the website it is “A group of Catholics.” “

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